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A question for you [26 Mar 2011|11:19am]

poxydoo
A friend of mine gave me a link to an interesting article. He is not Mormon, but he was friends with a missionary a few years ago, and he and I have talked about the religion, so he knows a bit about the way things are. He sent me the link along with this message:

Hey, if your bored or have some time I was wondering if you could give me some feedback on this article. It's kind of long and I know you got two jobs and a family, so its no big deal if you don't get around to it. I was just a little nervous about what seem to me to be tactics much like that of Glen Beck. I'm certainly no fan of mormon ideologies, worldviews, or "American history" and I'm all for being critical of everybody, but this article plays mormons up as insane right wing racist anarchists bent on destroying everything from America to social programs to Jews. The author uses terms like "they never said it in those words but its what they meant" and also connects one mormon to anti-semites because this mormon refrenced a book translated by a guy who once gave an anti-semetic book to a US president. Anyways, I was just wondering what you thought about it or even if Im totally off base in thinking that its anti-mormon propaghanda. It's a weird article.

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/150333/the_bizarre_religious_myths_mormon_right-wingers_are_pushing_on_tea_partiers_--_with_glenn_beck's_help/?page=1

I read it and responded, but I'm also curious what you all think about this.

My response, if anyone is interested, is under the cut:

this_cutCollapse )
3 comments|post comment

Mormons on Broadway! [24 Mar 2011|10:21pm]

jurek
Ha ha ha!

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/134803453/on-broadway-a-mormon-swipe-at-everything
4 comments|post comment

I am in need of some advice... [13 Mar 2011|07:03pm]

poxydoo
My wife and I have a wonderful little girl of 15 months. She is developing rapidly and is very observant. One of the things that Erin and I were a bit concerned about from the beginning was, of course, how my family's religious views might possibly influence her. We have a good relationship with my family, and in fact, my mom watches our daughter two days a week while we both work... but that's part of the problem. She is there a lot, without us, and she is getting close to an age where she might start picking up on some habits my family has, such as praying and scripture reading, and it might make her curious.

And curiosity is fine, of course. Mormonism is part of my family's life, and we can't keep her from being exposed to it to some degree (and we don't want her to be ignorant about it anyway). But we are concerned...

I'm actually not at all worried about my parents pushing their views on my daughter as she grows up... at least, not intentionally. I feel that they have enough respect for me and my family to try not to interfere with us in that way. However, they certainly aren't going to hide their religion from her, either, and if she asks direct questions, she will probably get direct answers. And I don't want my parents giving the direct answers - I want to give them. To a small child, there is a big difference between being told "God is our father in Heaven who created us all and we worship him," and "Some people believe that there is a big man who lives in the sky," etc. Or if she asks what they are reading and they say The Book of Mormon and she asks what that is... I do not want my parents explaining that one to her.

So, I'm not sure what to do here, and I was hoping there were some of you who raised children amongst Mormon relations and might have some advice about how to keep them informed without being inundated.
3 comments|post comment

Interesting articles in my newspaper [13 Mar 2011|07:55am]

jurek
http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_17597957

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_17598240

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_17598506

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_17598375
2 comments|post comment

Mormon Tolerance lesson [01 Mar 2011|02:44pm]

jurek
The March issue of the New Era has an interesting article for the Mormon teens about TOLERANCE. I was curious: what such intolerant religion would have to say about the subject. The only more interesting source would be a Westboro Baptist Church publishing a pamphlet on the same subject.
From the beginning, one notices a prominent picture of Jesus with a whip in his hand accompanying the article. OK, so far quite predictable...
Then the quotes:
"Differences in cultural background, language, gender, and facial features fade into insignificance as members lose themselves in service to their beloved Savior." - OK, I get it - if they are members of the church, one is to tolerate them.
The one of the paragraphs warns "Risks of Boundless Tolerance":
"So tolerance, without limit, could lead to spineless permissiveness"!
and :
"the Savior taught us that we
need not tolerate evil. “Jesus went into the
temple of God, . . . and overthrew the tables of
the moneychangers” (Matthew 21:12; see also
Mark 11:15). Though He loves the sinner, the
Lord said that He “cannot look upon sin with
the least degree of allowance” (D&C 1:31).
Real love for the sinner may compel coura-
geous confrontation—not acquiescence!"

OK, I think I got it - if they are members they are OK, but if they are not members and by my assessment sinners, I am to courageously confront them! I guess they want every member to be a self-righteous little Jesus cleaning this Earth from scum sinners.

Nice lesson for Mormon youth, eh?




9 comments|post comment

[28 Feb 2011|06:50pm]

poxydoo
Does anybody know of any good memoirs written by people who have left the church? Books that talk about why they left and what they went through, etc. I've been thinking recently that it might be interesting to read some such stuff.
3 comments|post comment

Friends of Scouting [27 Feb 2011|09:08am]

estella7
I HATE THE FRIENDS OF SCOUTING FUNDRAISER

Twice a year, our arrogant next-door neighbor comes to the door to ask for money for scouting. I am not a fan of scouting and its connection with the Mormon church. Scouting is anti-gay and anti-atheist and I don't want to support it. I don't mind donating food when the scouts collect but that's all I want to contribute. The scout masters come twice a year looking for funds and their tactics piss me off. It's door-to-door, high pressure and I always wimp out and give them a token $5 so they'll get off my porch and then I'm mad at myself for donating to their discriminating cause.

Last year they came to my door with an autistic boy in our neighborhood and asked if we would support him in scouting. That is such a fucking low-blow. I like this kid. I've been his teacher at the school I work at. It just makes me angry. There are about 10,000 causes I'd rather donate to but always end up giving money to the Boy Scouts. I know I should just tell them no thanks but they manipulate. They know all the right buttons to push and really, I want to keep the peace with my neighbors. I don't want to be seen as the angry ex-Mormon.

Not to mention I have a NO SOLICITING sign on my front door but apparently they feel it doesn't apply to them. 
10 comments|post comment

[23 Feb 2011|01:57pm]

ryokomusouka
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright

Does this sound familiar to anyone? :P
1 comment|post comment

[02 Jan 2011|04:30pm]

estella7
[ mood | cranky ]

I know this is bitchy but I get really annoyed when half my neighborhood (in Utah, of course) leaves around 12:55pm en masse for church and then all come back home around 4:05pm. This herd of SUVs. Every Sunday, every season. Even in good weather the SUVs drive to the church building, even though it's barely a block away.  I know when I don't see the SUVs, it must be General Conference (or Stake Conference). 

It used to be me. I wonder how many of my neighbors I used to annoy. Heh. 

1 comment|post comment

I'm sure many of you have seen this already. [02 Jan 2011|09:53am]

poxydoo
But I always get excited when there is a Mormon-themed card on Postsecret:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_a7jkcMVp5Vg/TR_3_qJ977I/AAAAAAAAN18/VyOrx1UXHQ0/s1600/underarmor.jpg
4 comments|post comment

Community Promotion [01 Jan 2011|05:13pm]

lassie_faire
[ mood | cheerful ]

I looked in our rules and didn't see anything against community promotion/etc.  So I really hope this okay!

A lot of people I know hang over at Postmormon.org and were looking for a community that specifically deals with women's issues upon leaving the church.

I decided to create on over here:

Women_Exmormons


Please join and feel free to contribute! We're just getting it set up right now. :)

post comment

WOW [16 Dec 2010|02:03pm]

falloutkid
Old school peeps up in here might remember that I am a Utah County expatriate. Well, I have something interesting to report.

I am visiting home for a funeral. Grandma passed. More on that in the coming days....

Coming south from Salt Lake City into Provo/Orem, the true spiritual center for Mormonism, there was a HUGE highway sign for www.postmormon.org.

"YOU ARE NOT ALONE!" it read in undeniably large letters, right at the gates of the enemy, situated right after the prison on the eastern side of I-5. I was quite impressed! Go Team Apostate! It has been a hard trip so far, and I was further writing off Utah forever because of.... so many reasons, frankly. However, this totally made my day!

Pics later if I can track them down!

*EDIT*

Dig on the link, my friends:

http://prideinutah.com/?p=7136
4 comments|post comment

[12 Dec 2010|11:43pm]

poxydoo
Just got off the phone with my older sister. She had an interesting question for me... is there anything anybody could have done to help prevent me from leaving the church?

Apparently there is a family in her ward (husband, wife, 18 year old son, 14 year old daughter) who is having a rough time. The husband and wife converted 20 years ago, but more recently the husband has left the church. He eventually "got into his son's head" (is how my sister put it), and he left the church as well, also dropping out of school and doing drugs (of course, right, since he left the church?). The daughter is hanging on, but apparently just barely, and even the wife is about ready to give up.

The young woman's leader in the ward is trying to work with the daughter, but has no experience with a family member leaving the church, so asked my sister, who called to talk to me about it.

Yeah, I think I ended up upsetting her...

But her initial question, as I said, was: could anybody have done anything to keep me in the church? I thought about it, and the only answer I could really come up with was - and I said this with complete politeness - if I had gotten better answers to my questions. I acknowledged that the bishop and missionaries and my parents did their best to provide me with good answers... but I don't have to tell any of you here that there comes a point where the answers start to feel like excuses, until you are finally hit with "we can't understand the mysteries of God's will." Faith is the answer.

So the conversation went from here, and I was trying not to get too intense about things, because I didn't want to upset my sister. I knew it would only upset her if I started rattling off all the reasons I left the church: the hypocrisies, the fucked-up historical stuff (blacks & the priesthood, Mountain Meadows, etc.), changing doctrine (God is now not taught to have literally had sex with Mary). But some of the stuff came out, because she did call asking for information... And she stayed cool on the phone, but I know my sister, and I think I shook her.

One thing that irked me was her reminding me about the prevalence of anti-Mormon stuff on the internet. ("It's as easy to find as porn, just a click and you're there.") And of course, all the anti stuff is lies and exaggerations, blah blah blah. This always upsets me, because I did something apparently unprecedented: whenever I encountered something "anti," something that shocked or shook me, I verified it. When I learned about the Mountain Meadows Massacre through a fucking movie trailer, I talked to my parents about it. When I read about the Kinderhook Plates, I went to my parents 10-volume "History of the Church," and there it was, the story of Joseph and the Kinderhook Plates... except that the book omitted the part about them being fake.

She also asked if I saw myself ever possibly returning to the church, even if it's the tiniest sliver of a chance. My initial answer is, of course, hell no, but I wanted to be objective, so I thought about it for a moment. Then I said, "No. The church has a lot to explain and a lot of fessing up to do." That shocked her, and she asked what would need fessing up. I knew my list would upset her, so I prefaced by saying that it was all stuff she would probably roll her eyes at or something, and she decided she didn't want to hear.

Anyway. Sorry this was so long. It was just a really weird conversation and I had to talk about it. My wife's in bed, so I've just been stewing.

It was an interesting question, though, and it actually made me stop and think about it seriously: could anyone have done anything to keep me in the church?
What about for any of you?
10 comments|post comment

Mormons kicked out of Scouting by Presbiterians! LOL! [19 Oct 2010|03:53pm]

jurek
It's so funny to see their outrage when they find themselves on the receiving end of the same kind of stupidity they dish out to others!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130682153
1 comment|post comment

Sign the letter, post in your facebook! [04 Oct 2010|04:46pm]

jurek
This is so outrageous that I was shaking with anger:

https://secure3.convio.net/hrc/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=945
9 comments|post comment

LDS humor on FB [14 Sep 2010|09:54am]

jurek
Facebook has an "LDS Humor"group (http://www.facebook.com/ldshumor). Some of it is quite smug and self-righteous, as one would expect, but some is amusing, like this one:

Mormons Foxworthy Style:

If all your dishes have your name written on them with masking tape...
You might be a Mormon.

If you postdate your checks while shopping on Sunday....
You might be a Mormon.

If you believe heck is the place for people who do not believe in gosh...
You might be a Mormon.

If your mom was pregnant at your sister's wedding reception....
You might be a Mormon

If you pray that your food might "nourish and strengthen your body" before eating doughnuts....
You might be a Mormon

If you think Jell-O is one of the basic food groups......
You might be a Mormon

If at least one of your salad bowls is at a neighbor's house.......
You might be a Mormon.

If you've ever written a "Dear-John" to more than two missionaries on the same day....
You might be a Mormon

If you were frustrated when your son "only" got accepted to Harvard....
You might be a Mormon.

If you have one kid in diapers and one on a mission....
You might be a Mormon

If you have never arrived at a meeting on time....
You might be a Mormon.

If you have more wheat stored in your basement than most third world countries....
You might be a Mormon.

If you've already got your order in for volume 50 of "The Work and The Glory"...
You might be a Mormon.

If you think it is all right to watch football on Sundays as long as a direct descendant of Brigham Young is playing.....
You might be a Mormon.

If you have to guess more than five times the name of the child you're disciplining...
You might be Mormon.

If you automatically assume that BYOB means, Bring Your Own Burgers...
You might be Mormon.

If you go to a party and someone spikes the punch with Pepsi...
You might be a Mormon.

If you arrive to an activity an hour late and are the first person there...
You might be a Mormon.
1 comment|post comment

Triumphant -- a Personal Reflection [05 Aug 2010|04:40pm]

falloutkid
Seventy-seven percent.

77. Look that number. Double-digits. Almost like a "crying snake eyes" roll at the craps table.

I will remember 77 percent for quite some time to come.

This is the percentage of the estimated Mormon-based contribution, according to sources with a personal stake involved in the outcome of the Prop 8 ruling, unlike those that were rallying in support of it passing. If the knife in my back plunged six inches on Election Day of 2008, I have four and a half inches to thank Mormons for. Bitter much? I still haven't healed, and I recall it as a scar. A war wound from the culture war.

Yesterday, I was filled with a sense of profound wonder when Judge Vaughn of the U.S. District Court in San Francisco made history. This is not the first federal court decision handed down in favor of same sex marriage, but it is perhaps even more significant than the recent Massachusettes victory for marriage equality. I am in the middle of history, at the intersection of faith, hope, and treachery.

On June 12, 2010, I was married to Owen. "Married" is perhaps a strong word, marginally pre-emptive, as we who live in Oregon are not given the option to marry life partners if they are of the same gender. Not yet.

My family, all devout TBM Mormons, all with missionary stories, or temple marriages as partial excuses, were present in full attendance on the 12th of June in Portland, Oregon. "Where's Doug's family?" you could have asked on that day. "I believe it is the cluster of nervous people not wearing black."

My family went above and beyond, considering the psychological and spiritual obstacles set before them. I have not asked if any of them directly funded the Prop 8 campaign, as they were no doubt encouraged to do so. I do not have to know, because I asked them to attend, and they did, in full and complete attendance. It was the first reunion of my family since my own parents' troublesome and legendarily unpopular divorce the year prior. My parents stood at opposite ends of family photos, sandwiching all seven of their children. Everyone was there.

Everyone. Not often do I count myself in that same category. I cannot! I am too strange for that term, like a foot too large for an army boot. Today I may feel bold again, and I say it, and I start crying. "Everyone has the right to marriage." Not 90%, not 52% and not according to 77% of paying customers. Everyone.

I cannot begrudge my family, for they have done what they felt was appropriate. My youngest brother was ring-bearer, and my mother gave me away (!!!). They have done so well for me in recent years.

Not all of my family is so kind. I know that amongst the 77%, many distant relatives lost money on their bet. I feel self-assured, as if I should rebuke them for gambling. I wll not forget the dangers that Mormonism does pose, but neither should I forget these clear lessons:

Thou shalt not steal. Especially legal rights granted to individuals.

The legal system is absolutely horrible, except for when it almost accidentally works for you.

If someone with more money and more power is trying to take something away from you, FIGHT LIKE HELL. It is up to YOU to determine YOURSELF, not subject to majority vote, and not up to 77% either.

Last, but not least: in all ways, look for love before you look for hate. You'll find what you're searching for.
4 comments|post comment

Illegal Mormons? [17 Jul 2010|03:42pm]

jurek
Here is an interesting article by an obviously TBM about the immigration debate. I learned some interesting facts and found it so refreshing that I was surprised with the source:

http://tinyurl.com/2dog5br
11 comments|post comment

wonderful movie [17 Jul 2010|12:49pm]

scary_kittie
"8 the mormon proposition" is an amazing movie. if you have access to it you should watch it!
I never realized how incredibly crazy Utah is, but living here for 3 years I'm seeing it more and more. This movie revealed even more!
so much hate, it's just crazy. people that hate their children for not believing what they do, and people outside the LDS church blindly hating anything LDS. It makes me want to be that one person in a group that can have a discussion against LDS teachings that does not yell or swear.

what do you guys think?
It just bugs me when at my job i have to ask for an ID for the customer to buy an 'm' rated game and then they blow up at me saying that 'If i lived in another state this wouldnt be a problem, but because mormons control everthing here i have to accomadate to you"
8 comments|post comment

Ban Divorce? Haha... [14 Jul 2010|04:29pm]

meganmerie
http://rescuemarriage.org/

I'm not sure if anyone has seen this, but Rescue Marriage is a group that is dedicated to banning divorce in California in order to protect "traditional" marriage.

Obviously, the above site calls out the people who voted for the LDS sponsored Prop 8 meausure that passed in California... BURN! And they do so in a hilarious way. It gave me a good laugh.

:D
8 comments|post comment

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